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 Spiking and other general comments

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8Bit
Grandma
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Grandma
Lion walking amongst mere Anet staff
Grandma


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PostSubject: Spiking and other general comments   Spiking and other general comments Icon_minitimeWed Aug 31, 2011 11:38 pm

Correct me if I am wrong here but this is how I see spikes. When the 3 2 1 call comes, damage should be cast on 1. If spells are recharging and 3 seconds later it is ready to cast, don't cast it on the spiked target unless it is really low. It is just a waste of damage since prots will be up. Also, I am not a particularly competent spike caller. So it is always great when people shout out heal monk just fused and I can just shout away saying spike this, or prot PBlocked, or this target is camping me. It means that I can chose useful targets and make our spikes more effective, so even if they don't score a kill the alleviate pressure from the team.

I think in that VVV game I didn't really call enough, then again wasn't really spiking but just camping the monk, which possibly wasn't a good plan with natural stride to save him. So I think stand teams damage needs quite a lot of practise training those spikes, because the little damage we do have needs to do be perfectly executed to manage a kill. Also after watching the game + vent you really do hear just how silent it is in regard to tactics or just comments about what is going on. All I do is call 3 2 1 then moan a little bit about it and repeat. I need to talk more useful things! Or something like that.

Another thing is that I am all good just hanging around at stand (although I proved that I couldn't even lead stand team to the flag stand on Isle of Solitude...) but when I need to go off and defend base or counter a split or lead stand team to somewhere useful, whatever it might be. I don't really know how to go about it, if you see what I mean. I know the plan, but not how to properly complete it. Which is why I propose we do more random games in RIP where we just work out tactics for ourself, let people just do their own thing as we learn how to really get the upperhand in a game. Because Oze and Zuri are good and all, but they are only 2 and they don't always have the right tactics for the situation and when the rest of us are slightly clueless about how to win games. And lets face it, most of us are. We are getting fucking so much better but I am retarded when it comes to tactics. I always say this shit I know but I am on lunch break at work so I will continue bullshitting about GvG since I like bullshitting about things I dont understand. Yeah!

I had many other things I wanted to bring up but well now I feel conscientious of my enthusiasm to find our flaws and correct them. ^^.

Where the fucks our cape?!

And fuck natural stride
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8Bit
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PostSubject: Re: Spiking and other general comments   Spiking and other general comments Icon_minitimeThu Sep 01, 2011 12:16 am

About the spikes, I agree. I've been the caller a few times, and I often notice how spikes are either sloppy or the target isn't being snared. When the warrior calls a spike, you need to stop what you're doing and spike that target, it's the first priority. I remember a few times in gvg and ha where our spikes actually worked well, and shit really does die when that happens. It's important.

I think a good thing to have in mind when at stand is pushing and retreating (and doing so in time!). If we're scoring kills, we should push forward as a team to get the advantage with the flag running. It also allows for killing npcs and getting closer to the enemy lord pit, not to mention make it harder for the enemies to res up. On the other hand, we need to retreat back to base before our team starts to die. The way I see it now, the monks call that they have low energy, nothing happens, someone dies - then we retreat. Retreating in time allows for getting back the advantage at base with the npcs, and by splitting, but it doesn't help if we lose a few players while retreating.

A personal tip on the targeting: it's good to have the most spikes on the enemy mid- and backline, but try spiking the frontline every once in a while. They often overextend more and sometimes you can score a lucky kill because the monks are not expecting it.

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oze
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PostSubject: Re: Spiking and other general comments   Spiking and other general comments Icon_minitimeThu Sep 01, 2011 12:47 am

Target selection for spikes is not as simple as pinging something and saying 321. I'm gonna go ahead and list a few of the things you should consider.

1. Position - enemy war way out of monk range in your backline is more likely to be killed than an enemy monk that trying to spike forces your team to push deep into the enemy midline.

2. Weapon set - ele that does not change to their shield set on time will die easier than one that does.

3. Targets being ignored by monks - sometimes monks are so desperately trying to keep player X alive that they have been completely ignoring player Y for 30+ seconds, a quick spike on this can score an easy kill. (Usually happens when they are trying very hard to push a flag in and keep flagger alive)

4. Weapon spells / prots - it goes without saying these targets are unlikely to die if a spike is called on them. The only time a protted target should be called is if we're running some nasty spike with PoD.
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Zuri
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PostSubject: Re: Spiking and other general comments   Spiking and other general comments Icon_minitimeThu Sep 01, 2011 1:11 am

Quote :
Another thing is that I am all good just hanging around at stand (although I proved that I couldn't even lead stand team to the flag stand on Isle of Solitude...) but when I need to go off and defend base or counter a split or lead stand team to somewhere useful, whatever it might be. I don't really know how to go about it, if you see what I mean. I know the plan, but not how to properly complete it. Which is why I propose we do more random games in RIP where we just work out tactics for ourself, let people just do their own thing as we learn how to really get the upperhand in a game. Because Oze and Zuri are good and all, but they are only 2 and they don't always have the right tactics for the situation and when the rest of us are slightly clueless about how to win games. And lets face it, most of us are. We are getting fucking so much better but I am retarded when it comes to tactics. I always say this shit I know but I am on lunch break at work so I will continue bullshitting about GvG since I like bullshitting about things I dont understand. Yeah!

Experimenting is good, as explained before in this post, because it teaches you how to learn in certain conditions.

For example, double running a flag when the other team's stand team has no snares forces them to also dual run flags, relieving a lot of pressure especially if they are running something like triple frontline. It also allows you to push for their flagger HARD, forcing them to try to catch up by dedicating more things at the stand. This also gives our split more breathing room and allows us a window of opportunity.

Another thing is to notice the balance in the team and take advantage of imbalances. You should notice when they have damage at the stand or split, and a lack of healing or vice versa. I cannot even remember how many times Oze and I have ganked groups that outnumbered us by intelligent snaring simply by noticing they have no healer, or allowed the stand team to score kills by snaring their split healers while kiting from their damage.
Basically, if they have a 4-4 split but both monks are at the stand, just collapse in on the split who would have only 1 rit healing them all. Or if the prot monk goes back to save their split, snare the prot and the rit while calling for more damage at the stand. There are always imbalances, take advantage of them.

Sometimes Oze or myself are too busy kiting their warrs into our midline causing them to overextend in Frenzy, or too busy baiting the enemy team into bad positions when we notice a spike is about to happen on us. This is when you should experiment and learn what works and what doesn't.


Anyway, read below!

Quote :
Target Selection

As a warrior, most of your pressure comes from how wisely you choose your targets. Here's a quick overview of some of the things you should consider when selecting targets:

- Death Penalty
- Hard Res
- Flag Runner
- Key Character in their Build
- Armor Level
- Positioning
- Just Resurrected

These factors are the basics to choosing your targets wisely; knowing what to attack greatly increases your pressure.

Death Penalty

Typically, you want to prioritize targets that already have accumulated DP because they have a decreased health buffer before death. A target with DP will realize that he is a prime target for spikes and will typically play more conservatively. The lower the health, the easier they are to kill, the more deaths they take, and the more DP accumulates, creating a vicious hole. Monks will begin emphasizing their prots on DP'd targets, and you can use this to your advantage. Prot Spirit's effectiveness increases with DP so you can Frenzy away on him and then immediately switch and spike another target. Monks will panic from a sudden spike in health and post-prot and you can throw a large amount of damage around.

Hard Ressers

If a character is carrying the hard res for their team, getting a kill will guarantee a burned Res Sig. This is incredibly advantageous for your team because it brings you closer to team wiping them. When their sigs are gone and they take a death, it generally results in a team wipe, practically guaranteeing a win. 60% DP on a hard res is game over.

Flag Runners

Flag runners are incredibly tricky to score kills on, but when you do it your team receives an enormous stand advantage. When teams have a flag runner coming in, attention tends to divert away from the main fight and onto keeping the runner alive. Priority shifts to the runner in terms of target selection and defense. It is typically difficult to kill a runner, but there are some things you can do to boost your pressure. The first option is engaging in a skirmish by following their runner away from the stand. This is very intricate in nature and will be covered in another section. Another option is to keep one warrior on the runner, preferably the one with multiple KDs, and keep another warrior Frenzying away on their backline. This diverts prots onto two or three characters instead of just one, allowing you to do more damage and possibly score a monk wipe. If you kill the runner in the process, you gain valuable time at the flag stand and secure the game. The third option is to completely ignore the runner, save all your spike skills, and explode him in a clean spike. This rarely works because the enemy team will be watching for it, but occasionally you can catch them off guard.

Key Characters
Occasionally you'll run into a unique build that has a character that makes or breaks the build. An example would be the Tainted mesmer in a condi overload build. Sometimes you'll run into characters that are significantly adding to the pressure on your team. By killing a key character like this, you can greatly relieve pressure on your team, forcing them to play more conservatively, and allowing you to push hard.

Soft Targets

This is pretty much common sense and shouldn't really have to be elaborated on, but I will. To do more damage, you need to hit characters that take more damage. This includes monks, eles, necros, and mesmers, all having caster armor (60 AL). With bigger damage comes bigger pressure, so it's generally good to avoid linebacking.

However, there are times when attacking warriors and rangers is viable. When pulling, spiking a frenzied warrior will do more damage than spiking a softy. Also, sometimes giving your monks 3 seconds to breathe by KD'ing enemy warriors with Bull's/Shock is invaluable. Spiking rangers isn't always a bad idea, but has to be done wisely. Force them to burn their Natural Stride, wait 6 seconds, and throw an Eviscerate their way. This will force overhealing on their backline because monks will throw a heal/dismiss their way, even though the ranger can take care of himself. Don't limit yourself to attacking just soft targets - just make sure that you're doing more damage in the process.

Positioning

Players on the enemy team that have terrible positioning are practically free kills. Monks pushing up for their frontline, mesmers overextended trying to diversion spam monks, eles pushed to snare your flag runner. It's your job to be aware of their mistakes, catching them outside position and punishing them accordingly. Make sure your teammates chime in on any out of position targets.

Characters that Just Ressed

A character that just ressed has no prot on him. Although it might seem silly to kill a character twice in a row, not letting him get DP a second time, it gives you chance to increase your pressure by forcing their monks to prot a target that has no defense on him. One thing I highly recommend you pay attention to is to not stop your pressure after you get a kill. Continue bashing in their face with Frenzy and don't stop pushing unless they recover. Another thing to pay attention to us what kind of res is used. Flesh of My Flesh or Death Pact Signet should be immediately set off a flashing red light to spike the person who just ressed. This will typically result in a team wipe, allowing you to push into their base.

Infuse

If you're DPSing a target and he suddenly gets a huge spike in health, look for a monk that just infused nearby. This may be game-changing, allowing you to monk wipe an unsuspecting backline.
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Pursh
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PostSubject: Re: Spiking and other general comments   Spiking and other general comments Icon_minitimeThu Sep 01, 2011 1:44 am

Quote :
And fuck natural stride
inb4 natural stride monks become new meta
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oze
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oze


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PostSubject: Re: Spiking and other general comments   Spiking and other general comments Icon_minitimeThu Sep 01, 2011 1:56 am

Pursh wrote:
Quote :
And fuck natural stride
inb4 natural stride monks become new meta

yet another completely useless comment from pursh. Anyone else seeing a pattern here?
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Pursh
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PostSubject: Re: Spiking and other general comments   Spiking and other general comments Icon_minitimeThu Sep 01, 2011 2:04 am

umad Cool
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Blossom
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PostSubject: Re: Spiking and other general comments   Spiking and other general comments Icon_minitimeThu Sep 01, 2011 3:08 am

Small tips if you feel spikes aren't working. Give your team a bigger change to be a help. (Team be the help) If you feel spikes aren't getting through, call casterspikes or count down from 5 instead of 3, giving the eles a chance to position in a way basicly anyone could be a potentional target. Mesmers change to put shame up, eles chance to gale or even blind linebackers.

Counting down from 5 isn't a bad idea when you're playing with a team that doesn't know eachother well yet anyways, then again some people stop everything they are doing just to press T 1 when they hear your voice (ps don't do that.)

Casterspikes, as war obviously annoy the monk.

If that and none of the above work, do what I do. 3 2 1 spike, 3 2 1 spike, sigh, 3 2 1 spike, 3 2 1 spike, omg we killed something, 3 2 1 spike flesher. 3 2 1 spike prot, 3 2 1 spike fuse. Gg. This would be about 30 sec in the match itself. Abuse Invokes insanely low recharge.
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Grandma
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PostSubject: Re: Spiking and other general comments   Spiking and other general comments Icon_minitimeThu Sep 01, 2011 3:26 am

I see it as, the more spikes the better. If people cant get on a spike, it doesn't matter a huge amount. It is just when damage pops up 6 seconds later. More spikes = more damage forcing heals = monks have less energy. And yeah I don't bother call caster spikes I just call a target and fuck off and hit monk if I see guardian or shit come up. Also charging a monk, they prot up and then spiking something else = win
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Blossom
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PostSubject: Re: Spiking and other general comments   Spiking and other general comments Icon_minitimeThu Sep 01, 2011 9:56 pm

The idea of casterspikes if pumping out quite some pressure by suprise, warriors running up to the targets like in any spike kinda kills the suprise element Cool

But yeh just calling shitload of spikes does wonders at this rating.
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